n tier ??

Hello all,

Q1:In all asp.net books the authors would tell you to seperate your presentation , business, and data layer but why does the wizards for the sql data source combine the presentation layer with the data layer?

Q2:Is there a way to retreive a dataset after you execut the sqldatasource.insert() command? ......I have a store procedure(sp) that i am using for inserting records. The sp is where i 'm validating all my data (shop standard) for example, ssn length, last name <> 0 etc. If there are any errors i grab all the error code from another table and return it. I can't seem to figure out how to get the dataset...

Q1: Separating the 3 tiers is just the basic rule to keep things simple. In an Enterprise application, each tier will be split in sub tiers, ending in douzans of tiers. In the same way, in a small web app (which is what the wizards are for, not large scale enterprise stuff, not even medium), you still separate everything, but in a much smaller scale:

Dataset: Data layer. Datasource and code behind -> logic. ASPX file -> presentation.

Thats only valid for very small scale things though. A better way is to put your logic and data layer elsewhere, and wrap them in an object datasource. Then you can still use the wizards, while separating stuff for real.

Q2: Yeah its possible, but I'd suggest looking at the Object Datasource. For more complicated logic, it is much better to make a class with your 4 methods that handle all the ADO.NET in code, and then use an object datasource to bind it to your grids, dataviews, etc.

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cheetoz:

Q1:In all asp.net books the authors would tell you to seperate your presentation , business, and data layer but why does the wizards for the sql data source combine the presentation layer with the data layer?

I had the same experience, but then I found this:

http://www.asp.net/learn/dataaccess/default.aspx?tabid=63

My SSIS Presentation.

I was demonstrating some of SSIS's capabilities to our Software Development Manager and VP of IS. (We are deciding which ETL tool to use for our DW project. So goes this project goes the house).They liked what they saw and were crazy over Fuzzy lookup but commented that SSIS seems very much oriented toward the programmer side of the house. It was, maybe, not the best tool for the Business analysts who are working closely with us on this project.

Any comments on their comment?

I wonder if SSIS "data source views" (which I haven't looked at at all) address their concerns?

Barkingdog

SSIS is a programmer/developer tool. All ETL tools are programmer/developer tools.

Exactly what do they want for the business analysts? SSIS is a platform for providing the data that business analysts may use - it is NOT something to be used by business analysts themselves.

-Jamie

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I know the Analysts are looking for a design tool they can use to create a Logical model of the warehouse. Later on the developers will convert the logical into a physical model. Since the analysts have a great understanding of the business implications of our data they will also be the ones completing the "Description" field of each field in the Data dictionary. I guess the company is looking for one product that can do all of this. (logical modeling, data dicitonary, let analysts get involved in the process, satisfy developer needs. They seem to think that the Sunopsis product I mentioned has better coverage of all these areas.)

Barkingdog

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I see. I've never seen Sunopsis but would be surprised if it has a logical data modelling tool. But hey, that's good to know.

Personally I use ERWin for this sort of stuff. I like the seperation of data modelling from implementation. To me, design and implementation are different disciplines and should be treated as such. That's just my opinion of course.

In response to your earlier question DSVs are not, in my opinion, a tool for data modelling. DSVs are something you build AFTER the physical model has been implemented. And before you have the physical model you have to build the logical model.

-Jamie

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It's worth noting that SQL Server does have exactly the capabilities you are seeking, barking - perhaps not quite in the way you have currently thought.

Analysis Services is the market leading tool for OLAP - which is, of course, a high performance architecture for delivering business analytics to end users.

In Analysis Services it is possible to build a cube - an analytic model - in a logical mode, then generate the physical model from that. These are called top-down cubes.

See: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms174482.aspx and http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms174883.aspx

hth

Donald