MY GOD SOMEONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS FEATURE

Hi Everyone

As most of you do, I am eagerly awaiting the ability to synchronize my sql mobile database on the hand held to a local sql express database on my local machine

I know users in Microsoft have pointed out to us that we are getting things for free.

At the same time, Microsoft is getting our patience for free and at a cost to us developers.

Its nearly April and as one article says Microsoft will release a fix for this inadequacy

Microsoft...we are happy to pay for this. Palm offers it so what is the big deal. Its not the

reinvention of the wheel. We would have liked that instead of the server synchronization

that bypasses the local sql express database

I as many others are happy to pay

Please let us know when you will be addressing this problem.

I would appreciate the feedback and frustration of other developers. Maybe this will show them we are really running out of time with our clients

Regards

Touraj

Can you point to do the article that says Microsoft will release a fix for this as I am curious?|||

Still, even if someone from Microsoft hasnt said this rather than a prominent person in the MVP area, it doesnt defeat the purpose of the Topic.

We need this as our clients are screaming for this functionality.

Please just answer this simple question. WHEN?

Touraj

|||I agree that this needs to be addressed and a schedule would be helpful. I don't see why the merge/snapshot publication capability exists in MSDE 2000 but not in SQL 2005. The "free" argument breaks down when you realize that the earlier version of the database runtime could do this.|||

Hi Skip

thanks for replying

for a second i thought i was the only person interested in this feature and thought maybe i had missed something...that was until my client who is a multinational screamed at me again on the phone

Anyone....can anyone from Microsoft please tell us SOMETHING

and not ignore us. We are the customers. Please tell us anything so that we know you guys actually do read our opinions

Darren Shaffer...i really respect you....can you say anything...

Touraj

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Appreciate your feedback. The requirement for syncing SQL Mobile with SQL Express has been raised earlier. The issue is not that both the products are free but given the time and resources that the SQL Mobile team has can all the requirements be handled effectively. There are quite a few requirements on the plate of the team and the requirements need to be prioritized so that the maximum value is generated given the constraints. The following helps in moving things up in the priority of the Product Team:

1) The criticality of the requirement - How big is the deployment? What will happen if the feature is not made available? What is the future growth rate of the application

2) No of Applications that are affected by not having the feature - How many of the SQL Mobile Application Developer community is affected by not having this feature

3) Customer scenarios - What are the customer business scenarios that are not being solved by not having this feature

Regards

Ambrish

|||This isn't the whole picture by the way.
MSDE indeed supports merge replication, it can be configured as distributor and can make publications. I've spent quite some time making scripts to configure newly installed MSDE instance for my needs and I was quite happy with the results - MSDE made me a snapshot on given schedule.
Then it came to synchronizing with ppc... First issue is that you can't install sqlce server tools with no SQL Server installed - it just doesn't seem to be able to locate the presence of MSDE. For testing purposes I've installed SQL Server and sqlce server tools, configured IIS with it (though you can make a virtual folder with sqlce server agent and set all access rights manually). I was able to browse the site with sqlce server agent from ppc and run the agent, but when it came to synchronizing, same error appeared over and over "29045: Initializing SQL Server Reconciler has failed" on MSDE. Switching to SQL Server solves the problem - merge replication works fine, but I need same functionality with MSDE. Official documentation states that it can be done, but it doesn't points to HOW it can be done.
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I appreciate your feedback

I also appreciate your priortities may be different than the simple user out there.

But as a company director of a growing mobile application business I can safely say that our business is being impacted by this gap in functionality

1) The functionality of Local Sync between a hand held and SQL Express is CRITICAL

This is irrespective of the size of the project/deployment. Customers and their internal IT department are staggered and laughing at us and Microsoft when they find out its not available.

Remember this is something that is made freely available in palm desktop and should be offered.

The growth rate of our applications will soon cease to exist under the SQL mobile platform if this isnt resolved. Customers do not want devices synching with their servers via IIS.

Eg When you are dealing with Mining companies do you think there is a server out in the mine or the office. NO

There is a rugged laptop running a .NET application for which the user needs to synch information to and from his hand held. This lack of functionality has now cost us one major tender and a whole industry. So what do we do.

I wouldnt even touch Appforge. They at least offer local synch for Palm DB and Access but their scalability is poor

So where does that leave us. Very frustrated because the business is being hurt by our loyalty. So we as well as many other vendors who we have met at exhibitions are deciding to leave if this isnt addressed quick

2) Again 100% of the application developer community. I can safely say this as I have a hand on the pulse of this matter. I think without going into technical aspects, simply from a user/customer point of view this is the sole reason that we dump your technology and decide to use another one.

This is mission critical. One reason I am passionate is that you have 99% of what we need

This 1% is what is causing the 99% to be useless. I cant say it more clearer than that

3) Once again..,.I can give you 100 scenarios.

You are asking us to accept

"a user having to synch a hand held with a server. the process would leave the SQL Express out of synch as it does not partake in that process unless you trigger another synch between SQL Express and SQL Server"

Besides it being a completely poor design we cant accomplish this in scenarios like mobile sales forces, mining, telecommunications and so on when the Server isnt there to act as the middle man. I just cant understand why i even have to explain this to you guys seeing it is so obvious.

This is where you will beat IBM who is currently buying up and looking at industry specific solutions.

With Microsoft our business will soon fail to operate using your technology. Forget about being industry specific and creating solutions. They convenience of mobility is made useless if you are restricted in such a way

You can call me and I can discuss it with more factual details which I will not post here

Suffice to say that losing our company will not be a once off loss in loyatly. We are an example of the widespread dismay and frustration with SQL Mobile

Touraj

|||I'm with Touraj on this matter. For SQL Mobile direct merging with a lightweight desktop DB such as SQL Express (or MSDE) is needed very much to develop an easy-to-deploy lightweight applications|||

Thanks Zheka

I am surprised no one else is adding their thoughts to this topic

Can someone from Microsoft tell us...do we need to organise a petition

or what are the formal process to get this escalated

|||

Touraj,

By way of encouragement, I can assure you that Microsoft has heard your feedback - there have been several internal discussions I have participated in on the topic of providing merge replication with a lightweight database on the server/PC. We're talked about SQL Mobile server tools for MSDE, peer to peer SQL Mobile to SQL Mobile replication, and some other options as well.

To give you some perspective on this issue, what SQL Express is lacking is more than just a set of server tools for SQL Mobile replication. There are some major, integral components missing from SQL Express which would be needed to support merge replication, including a SQL Agent, a Distribution Database and capability, Replication Monitor, and the ability to define publications and serve as a publisher to name a few. So given that, in my opinion, Microsoft is not likely to come out with a way to bolt all of that on to SQL Express as it exists today - it would effectively be the same as bringing SQL Express up to SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition.

So the real problem is there is no MSDE-equivalent that supports merge replication available with the 2005 set of dev tools. In my opinion (and this is only my opinion), Microsoft lost money on MSDE because an awful lot of people used it in pseudo production environments with 5 or fewer concurrent connections. So retiring it does encourage adoption of SQL Server 2005 standard or better edition, which is an improvement in revenue for the company.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't believe relief is coming in the next few days or weeks based on how large the effort would be to solve this problem (not just technically, but from a marketing, documentation, and distribution standpoint). So you are going to need to consider an alternate option while this issue is being addressed. Here are some options that other people are evaluating or have working now:

1. use web services and roll your own data sychronization between SQL Mobile and SQL Express (this would be my choice in your situation unless you have multiple mobile users changing the same data between synchronization events)

2. use SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition on the server if budget permits

3. use a third party synch tool - I just saw a note from someone at IntelliSync claiming that their Data Synch product has the ability to synchronize SQL Mobile to SQL Express. I have not personally tested that nor do I know what it costs, I'm just passing along that they have made the claim.

4. if your application has a "batch-mindset", meaning you populate a SQL Mobile Database, put it on device, work with it all day, and then copy it back to a server and extract the data, you can use a programmatic approach to synchronizing the data. Tools from www.primeworks.pt are excellent for this.

I will continue to emphasize to Microsoft in my internal discussions with them how important the issue is and if a solution becomes finalized, I'll communicate that here and in the public newsgroup.

-Darren

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Dear Darren

My sincere thanks for your detailed response. I think you should be running the development division at Microsoft because it is real shame and eye opener when an external consultant is answering these type of questions and we are being treated like fools by Microsoft employees who run you through the same time wasting exercise and questions

I thankyou for your answers and advice. But the question remains why arent we as customers getting these answers from a Microsoft person. Absolutely ridiculous

Regards

Touraj

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to be honest I think you are pretty much telling to good guys at Microsoft to do all the work for you - this is really not the way to go, nor will it ever happen. Microsoft has done HELL OF ALOT for developers and customers and yet they still get negitivity - outragous in my honest opinion.

putting the differences aside....

you should really handle this in "your" own way - in other words, your own mechinism. This is EASILY achieved. Use WebServices, this is what I had done on several projects of my own.

It doesnt take much time and you will be benefiting from improving your skills, using the technology more and can customize it the way you wish to - that's what it's all about.

my 10 cents ;-)